Ep. 23: Bad Religion, Shame, & Community w/ Anissa & Karyn (Heathen Podcast)

Show Notes

Episode Summary

As one half of the hosting team at Heathen Podcast, Anissa Nishira and Karyn Thurston are done with shame. Despite their vastly different upbringings, they each were taught a religion of shame, conformity, and certainty. In this episode, we talk with them about how they are now on a quest to drop the shame and helps others do so, all while building a faith that’s based on love. We also touch on deconstruction, birthing justice, microaggressions, being a Black woman in predominantly white spaces, and the meaning of community. (And don’t miss next week’s episode with Flamy and Ben, the other two hosts of Heathen!)

Bio

Anissa Nishira is a birthworker and birth justice activist whose non-profit, ReHope Inc., provides no-cost holistic birth support for teen parents in San Diego, CA. She’s also one of four cohosts of Heathen Podcast. Find her on Instagram @littlestarbirthservicessd.

Karyn Thurston is a writer, poet, and lyricist whose work centers on religious deconstruction, motherhood, and social justice. She’s also one of four cohosts of Heathen Podcast. Find her on Instagram @girlofcardigan.

Heathen Podcast is about how to move on from bad religion with fewer casualties. For the past five years, Heathen has been creating safe space for folks in the process of moving away from their religious origins into uncharted territory, providing resources, and welcoming uncomfortable conversations about identity, faith, patriarchy, race, spirituality, and what it really means to do community without shame.

Follow Heathen on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook (@HeathenPodcast), check out Heathen Happy Hour on YouTube, and listen to their podcast.

Quotables

• “There’s such a beautiful, beautiful freedom in what happens to people when you just love them and let them be who they are.” (tweet this)

• “We are absolutely, loudly, and unapologetically opposed to religion that fosters shame and uses it as a tool to manipulate, control, and keep people small.” (tweet this)

• “A starting place for healthy spirituality is to ask myself, ‘Who am I and what do I need?’” (tweet this)

• “For me, the shift to a healthy theology was when questions, not answers, became my doctrine.” (tweet this)

• “If God is who God theoretically is, there’s not going to be a path that can take me somewhere God can’t go.” (tweet this)

• “We don’t have to experience faith in the same way to be with people where they’re at.” (tweet this)

• “If I can’t say to you that the thing you’re doing is hurting me without you going into a shame spiral, I never get to be heard.” (tweet this)

• “The more stories we hear, the closer we get to feeling safe with each other, and the safer we feel, the closer we get to being able to accomplish something beautiful.” (tweet this)

Timestamps and References

• [04:12]—A little bit of Anissa’s faith background and how she found a church that was nothing like she’d ever experienced before

• [08:00]—How Karyn and Anissa met

• [12:45]—How Karyn joined Heathen Podcast, her experience with deconstruction, and how she came to terms with her shame

• [16:30]—Anissa’s deconstruction experience

• [21:40]—What Anissa has replaced bad religion with

• [24:48]—What Karyn has replaced bad religion with

• [34:47]—How the diversity of the Heathen crew has influenced Karyn’s faith

• [37:20]—How Anissa’s experience as a Black woman in the church influences her faith today

• [45:17]—How Anissa became an advocate for birthing justice

• [59:01]—What gives Karyn hope for the future of faith

• [01:02:03]—What gives Anissa hope for the future in general, and also for the future of faith

• [01:03:40]—Rapid Fire questions

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Credits

This episode was produced by The Sophia Society. Music is by Faith in Foxholes, and sound engineering is by Joshua Mudge.